B r i t a i n Z i m b a b w e S o c i e t y
OF Report Section 3Discussion Following Panel One
Lela Kogbara , in the Chair, thanked Stephen Munjanja and Thabitha Khumalo for their very interesting presentations and invited contributions from the floor. (Comments are attributed only to those contributors who identified themselves; where no name is attached to a comment it is either because people chose not to identify themselves, or because their names were not heard clearly by the rapporteurs and they could not be identified subsequently)
Dominic Pasura – I am a PhD student at Warwick University where I am doing research on the Zimbabwean Diaspora in the UK. I would like to thank both speakers for their interesting presentations. I have a question for us all to consider: when we talk of skills and reconstruction in the context of the Diaspora, do we think of this as a parallel project to that happening at home? What precisely do we perceive to be the role of the Diaspora in rebuilding the country? In answering this question, we need to take into account the extensive deskilling that people experience in the Diaspora. It is an extremely disappointing process. Many of us spend 5-10 years in the wilderness of exile and this is time enough to suffer considerable loss of skills. If, for example, a qualified and experienced teacher spends that time working in a care home, how does s/he then recover or maintain his/her skills? What about the Diaspora who don’t return home? Do we include them in our analysis?
Mrs Sine Biba (Granny Gogolo Door-to-Door) - I have been working with the elderly for sometime back home in Zimbabwe. Here in the UK I have been forced to ask myself “who am I”? What am I doing? My ears still hear of the suffering at home, and my eyes still see the suffering at home, so I ask myself “what can I do to help people?” People here leave their families behind, and with HIV/AIDS the elderly end up looking after the orphans while we send money back. We are all looking for Mugabe to go or die – this is not going to happen. So what can we do? I ask you what use is your Masters? My degree is to think of everybody, while those people doing degrees are just thinking of themselves, in the same way as Mugabe thinks of himself, as gaining more power. It is important that you must think of the broader community and of how you will contribute to others. It is not enough to just think that Mugabe is bad. What help is Blair’s government going to give us?
Response from Thabitha Khumalo – In response to the first question about deskilling and transformation, you have to be united to uphold your skills; you have to develop community support to sustain your resources. Currently corporations travel all over the world but are not called ‘illegal immigrants’. But you and I are called ‘illegal immigrants’. We have to combat this. Remember – United We Stand, Divided We Fall.
Response from Stephen Munjanja – Deskilling is a very worrying problem in the UK. I didn’t know it was such an issue; people in Zimbabwe should be informed about this.
Farai Madzimbamuto - As Stephen pointed out bilateral agreements have the effect of displacing emigration to other countries (eg. Bilateral agreement between South Africa and Zimbabwe). People will probably go to countries where there is no bilateral agreement. This is not good for us as it sends people even further away, though other countries benefit. The UK is about to sign one. What is the better alternative? In the UK we have to set up a group to try to liaise and develop health training and support between the UK and Zimbabwe.
Question: When we talk about working together in the Diaspora as a group, are we to group together as a political party, or as a non-political organization? MDC is a political party and is split. How should we group as a non-political party? How do we address the issue of deskilling? We need to be more precise in our recommendations for action.
Angela Shiri (Manchester) - We have many young Zimbabweans here who go to school in a foreign culture and they are isolated from other young people at school etc. They are excluded by their peers, and this creates a tension for them between choosing to adapt into the culture of their peers and holding onto their home culture. How are we all going to unite together? Also some parents here cannot afford to educate their children. It is important that elderly people should do work with young people. We have degrees in “knee-ology” (praying) but how can we bring young people into our groups when we come together? I feel like I am running from a lion, I find an open door, but when I enter through that door I find myself in a small box. All this limits the great contribution that we could make.
Elias Maphosa – I am very impressed with this meeting and the choice of speakers (covering health, education, ZCTU etc). I am a health worker and I thought Stephen Munjanja gave a really good account of the health situation in Zimbabwe and I was very impressed by his suggestion that people in the Diaspora should link their professional associations here with professional associations in Zimbabwe. This is a good idea for practical action from the Diaspora, as we need money and support from them to develop and sustain skills in Zimbabwe. We must be careful not to demonize the Diaspora. We should rather harness the skills and earnings of those in the Diaspora. I am appealing to the house that we need to develop skills in the Diaspora and in Zimbabwe so that people can contribute to the country in future. If they later leave Zimbabwe then so be it. As Stephen Munjanja said, we need books, money, equipment etc. in Zimbabwe. We have diminishing resources in Zimbabwe and decreasing access to these things. The Diaspora can help to give books and other resources to Zimbabweans back home. I have over 100 kgs of books, but the problem is how to get them back to Zimbabwe.
Lela Kogbara (Chair) – I want to bring the discussion back to the speakers. There seem to be two key questions: (1) the efficacy of bilateral agreements, and (2) how do we unite the Diaspora under one leadership? This raises questions of accountability and grounding – who would they report back to? What might be appropriate organizations to provide a platform or some grounding for this?
Thabitha Khumalo responds - We campaigned to raise money to import 100 packages of sanitary towels to Zimbabwe. We paid and paid again to bring them in (costing us $23000) before we managed eventually to get proper support. So even bringing books in could be very difficult to organize. The obstacles are huge but not to do so is counter-productive to the national interest, regardless of party orientation. This issue of skills is a development issue and needs to be seen as such. It goes beyond party politics. You need one united organization here with subsections concerned with e.g. health, education, women’s issues; but unity is crucial. This Zimbabwe Forum could play this role – it is non-party political and could just focus on development issues and creating links with the Diaspora. It should be non-party political.
Stephen Munjanja responds – Bilateral agreements are not that frequent. They are not the way forward as they can be counter-productive. They may prevent refugees from earning a decent salary when they most need it, keeping their skills and being able to contribute to their new country (in central Johannesburg I once encountered a group of refugees sleeping in a Methodist Church Hall; along with other professionals, the group included three qualified Zimbabwean Doctors). More generally, the power of the market is so strong that people will always get round them. Bilateral agreements don’t stop people from leaving a country, but just alter the destination country to which people go. For example, there are brain drains from all across Africa, and of scientists from Britain to America, and these are all driven by the power of markets. This is why we need to rely on professional associations from different countries to link up creating a platform for the transfer of skills – a platform that is not trying to ignore or avoid the power of markets. Professions all have organizations that have national associations, often with international links, and we should use these to connect Zimbabweans in the Diaspora to Zimbabweans at home.
Sunanda Ray – When Mozambique was in a state of economic collapse, a group of us tried to organize a street collection of clothes in Harare but no one gave us anything because they said their own families needed looking after they also had to clothe themselves. It is the same thing here. Zimbabweans here are very focused on looking after themselves and their own families whether here or in Zimbabwe. It is very difficult to organize people to look after others; people have got better at it in Zimbabwe, but here we are still skeptical of attempts to work together. People have little to spare and if ever there is a meeting, everyone asks “Who’s paying?” or “Who’s supplying the food and drink or transport?” and “Who’s an informer?” We need to look past ourselves and stop focusing on our own families – if we come together as a community we can serve ourselves, our families and each other more effectively and also bring about change. We need to link people’s own interests more clearly into the interests of the community.
Yvonne (Zimbabwe Women’s Network (UK)) – Are we comfortable with our identity as Zimbabweans? Are we Zimbabweans or do we think we are South Africans? No! We need to be strong and Zimbabwean and proud. It is hard for us all to unite in the UK, as we have different constituencies and needs but also people need to give more time and effort. We need to come together and give of ourselves. We have many problems here. The Zimbabwean Diaspora is rich in skills. But we are a divided community; criminalized, detained, unable to work, and suspicious. We are very angry with the British government, who force good people to be criminal. And with the media who demonize immigrants and refuse to recognize that it is our nurses who are running the National Health Service. Our contributions are forgotten. Do you notice how differently they report on Polish immigrants compared to Zimbabwean immigrants? There are estimated to be 500 000 of us contributing to the economy here. We must come together as a community and join in an organization here that will relate to one in Zimbabwe.
Eldridge Culverwell – Those of us who are in the Diaspora here must recognize that we are refugees. We have to change our mindset to consider that so that we can work together.
Sam Takavarasha – There are many myths about the Diaspora that need to be dispelled. It is very difficult to survive here financially; the pound does not lie on the streets waiting to be picked up. Education is very expensive and scholarships are limited. Being out of the Commonwealth has reduced the number of scholarships and made it a lot harder. We don’t trust each other. People here may listen to the NGOs in Zimbabwe rather than to us here as civil society and NGO’s at home have the ready ear of people out here in the UK. So civil society organizations in Zimbabwe should set the ball rolling and communicate with NGO’s here to strengthen the links between the Diaspora and home.
Euan Wilmhurst (ACTSA) - Unions are the route through which to organize. Our unions are already working in solidarity with Zimbabwean unions. The Dignity Period Campaign (that Thabitha has referred to) was only effective because it had the support of many unions. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, but rather we should engage with established routes and associations through the unions. So get involved with your local union here.
Dorothy (Zimbabwe Women’s Network (Middlesbrough)) – We are all very scattered and so it is hard to gather together. For example, getting people here has been difficult. Also, some people say that they don’t think they can come as they are asylum seekers and it is too risky. But if we have at heart a desire to break the cycle and if we are of one accord to break the pattern of ineffective action, we shall be effective. Until we all have a common goal we shall achieve little.
The Chair, Lela Kogbara, indicated that discussion could continue after a break for refreshments. She thanked all who had contributed to a stimulating and lively discussion, and asked the two panelists if they wished to make any brief comments before the end of this session.
Stephen Munjanja indicated that he had nothing further to add at this stage.
Thabitha Khumalo - Our ball is rolling. We are working hard in the labour movement here and in Zimbabwe. I have just been to the TUC conference in Brighton; the ZCTU is well linked and operational. But in ZCTU there is also suspicion and mistrust about informers. Sometimes it happens that people are beaten up in meetings. It is not easy; these are problems in any organization. But they can’t and shouldn’t prevent you from operating. We have worse problems in Zimbabwe. Get yourselves organized. Teach those that don’t know.
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